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  #1  
Old 04-27-2008, 06:41 PM
Walther
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Default Rule Interpretation- Roll Cage

AS I understand the current rules, The roll cage may have no more than eight attachment points aft of the fire wall, correct?

Something is happening in CFR that I do not understand and need advice. Racers are being told that an additional attachment point is required. I'll do my best to explain it as I understand it; At the bottom of the A-Pillar bar of the rollcage, on both sides, a bar must be added going forward and attaching to the foot well. The reasoning behind it is that in the event of a substantial front-end collision, the drivers feet are protected. The addition of these two bars would constitute ten attachment points, not eight. I designed and built my cage where the A-Pillar bars (running vertically from the floor to the "Halo" hoop) are as far forward as possible for that exact reason. If I added the bars in question, they would be but a few (maybe 2) inches long. In instances where the cage is designed with A-Pillar bars that are behind the dash (rather than through the dash like mine) I could see the argument.
As it stands right now, I would have to be a contortionist just to get that far into the car, not to mention welding them. PLUS, there is NO WAY I could complete a 360 degree weld without cutting the roof off and removing the cage from it's foundation.

I have my Novice Permit and plan on attending the Homestead School in June. I also plan to have the car tech'd before I leave. I just think that the inclusion of these bars are not only superfluous (based on my design), but illegal.

Comments? Advice?

Thanks,

Mark
AS #84
CFR
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  #2  
Old 04-27-2008, 07:47 PM
fairlane_68
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I may have missed it, but I haven't seen anything in Fasttrack about changes to roll cages, even for AS. Nothing was mentioned at Hallett either.
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Old 04-27-2008, 08:22 PM
socalta
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Walther..the eight points as I have come to understand them are two in the rear typically tied to the shock area, two behind the driver .. for Camaros just inside and back of the doors , the halo hoop along the A pilar just inside the door and the two heading forward to the foot well if you will ...
this has been the case for a good deal of time ...the "ten" or the tenth is typically from the attachment plate of footwell on the engine side of firewall to the front shock towers.....

there have been no changes to this at least for the last two years I have been building my bucket of bolts.......

Last edited by socalta; 04-27-2008 at 09:14 PM.
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  #4  
Old 04-27-2008, 08:39 PM
thomas toth thomas toth is offline
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Not sure I understand where your current 8 points are. Two at the rear shocks, 2 on the main hoop, 2 at the "A" pillar down tubes....currently where do you have 7 & 8? Maybe going through the fire wall to the strut towers?

Fill us in and maybe we can help.

Tom
#38 Camaro
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  #5  
Old 04-27-2008, 09:37 PM
Walther
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Mine are as Jorge described his to be. I have two bars extending from the A-Pillar/Dash bar junction forward through the fire wall to the shock towers. Scott Siefret's cage and mine are nearly identical, except he has already made the changes as instructed by CFR Tech.

The best I can describe the "extra" bars, is they are about 4" above and parallel to the floorboards, forward to where the floorboard angles up at 45 degrees to the firewall. While CFR claims it is a safety issue, if you can imagine what I am describing, it could also substantially stiffen the chassis and therefore be considered a performance enhancement.

I am going to try to make a philisophical argument (GRC in hand) to the techie when the time comes UNLESS sombody can chime in and tell me otherwise. I was hoping not only for ANY input, but especially those who race SARRC and CFR, Like Chuck, Patrick, Mitchell Geltz and so on. I trust and believe Scott implicitly, but I am totally confused.

Mark
AS #84
CFR
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  #6  
Old 04-27-2008, 09:44 PM
socalta
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mark..

I think the problem is the tubes needed or should have stop at the footwell and not pass through .... otherwise you dont have the 8 pick up points aft of the footwell as called out. I think technically you are two short ...

Nothing about this is new or result of a change.....I believe they can pick up on the other side and proceed to the shock tower......

also ... I dont have a cage in yet

my last big ticket item I am saving for..
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  #7  
Old 04-27-2008, 10:53 PM
fairlane_68
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This topic was beginning to ring a bell. There was a discussion about this a while back, with really good pics of buildups. I think you'll find your answer there.

http://www.asedan.net/forums/showthr...+cage+question

Page 2 has the answers you're looking for.

Also, there was a link to a buildup page where he shows pics of his roll cage, built according to the rules.

http://www.geocities.com/rgebhardt9/index.htm

Last edited by fairlane_68; 04-27-2008 at 10:58 PM.
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  #8  
Old 04-28-2008, 09:07 AM
Dawson Motorsports
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Back when the earth was cooling, AS had to run a 6 point cage. Tech then came up with the foot protection bars, caught a lot of people off gaurd. We then changed to the 8 point cage. With the usual firewall passage, 2 paltes welded BS sort of stuff.
If you contact Jeremy @ national for a clarification on the cage rules, it may make life a lot easier.
No where in the cage section off the GCR, does it say American Sedan, except on tubing sizes.
But, at the begining of the section, it states, "Specific istallations are subject to approval by the Technical and safety Inspectors at each event."
Now, doesn't that throw a monkey wrench into the entire works.
Chuck
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  #9  
Old 04-28-2008, 10:04 AM
jimwheeler jimwheeler is offline
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Most current cages have an 8 point cage (within the passenger compartment) with an additional tube going through (but not attached to) the firewall, to the front strut tower. If that tube is attached to the firewall, it counts as the 7th and 8th attachment point within the car. If it passes through, and isn't attached, just sealed up, it doesn't count.
wheel
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  #10  
Old 04-28-2008, 07:30 PM
Walther
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Quote:
Most current cages have an 8 point cage (within the passenger compartment) with an additional tube going through (but not attached to) the firewall, to the front strut tower. If that tube is attached to the firewall, it counts as the 7th and 8th attachment point within the car. If it passes through, and isn't attached, just sealed up, it doesn't count.
wheel
THAT'S the answer I was looking for Wheel!! Thanks. I incorrectly assumed/interpreted the bars I have extending THROUGH the firewall and attaching to the shock towers were two of the eight attachment points. I will say however that the design of my cage makes the NEW bars more of a superfluous afterthought, but hey, "So shall it be written, so shall it be done!" I guess I dust off the welder and get busy. I just have no idea how I am going to be able to weld the back side of the tubing because of it's proximity to the "kick panel" area of the door pillars. I'll try chewing gum and duct tape

Mark
AS #84
CFR
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