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  #1  
Old 11-19-2006, 09:50 PM
dmfracing
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Default looking to run AS

Hi everyone, just joined this forum and have some questions. Next year spring im going to Road America to get my scca regional license. I was big into running open wheel racing with scca mostly because i'm coming out of karting. But with my buget being pretty low its kinda kept me from looking for teams. My 1st question is how much does it cost to get into AS and to be competive? Can you run the F-Body camaro 93+ with the 305 5.0L or does it have to be 3rd gen? what should be somethings i should be looking into? does the scca central divs. have AS in there regional races? Im located in wi so if anyone could help me out and get me going in the right direction that would be great,


thanks,

Dan muth
D.M.F. Racing
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  #2  
Old 11-19-2006, 10:30 PM
jericker
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Hey Dan, welcome aboard to the madness! Glad to hear that you're interested in joining the AS ranks. You'll love the class and the people directly involved in it. We are all a bunch of friendly guys and most(all?) of us are willing to give you any information you might need. Some of them are more qualified than me to give you the right information however. Here is my take on your questions.

You can buy a 3rd gen Camaro right now for about $8-10k for a pretty good car. You'll likely need to put in another few thousand more to get "competitve" in it. You can use a 4th gen Camaro or firebird if you like. They seem to be a little more competitive right now, but the 3rds are holding their own. You will be required to run the 305 5.0L engine with a Holley 4776 carb and Edelbrock Performer RPM intake on it. Check out the rules for other allowable mods in the engine dept.

My suggestion for things to look out for would be to get a car and run your regionals which are part of the CenDiv races to get yourself up to speed. You will likely not have much competition in the regional events as most guys run the nationals, but there will no doubt be a couple of the regional runners to play with. You might even want to consider renting a car for a weekend to see if you like the class. Many guys on the site would be happy to let you rent a ride or have spare cars that they would offer. That way you can get an idea of what you might like since you have open wheel past.

If you have other questions that you might like answered, try looking in the GCR (the rule book), the new 2007 GCR is now available online on the SCCA website and there is a link from one of the posts on this forum if you can't find it. The GCR will give you all the details on a car build that you will need, but I would highly recommend buying an already built car and modify to your liking or renting (to own!) someone's car in their garage. Please feel free to ask away any other questions, we are all very happy to answer and again, welcome to the madness.

Jon
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  #3  
Old 11-20-2006, 06:19 PM
dmfracing
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thanks for the reply.. i have been looking at the GCR for 2007... and would mosty likely be intresting in renting a car to get a feel for the car and track, with this being a lower cost of racing (which is the place for me ha) i would then consider buying a project or turn key car. Another question i have is about the motor... how long do they usly last and where are some places to buy AS racing motors?
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  #4  
Old 11-20-2006, 09:19 PM
jericker
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As far as how long motors last, that really depends on how much you build it up, the tolerances used, stock parts vs. aftermarket "better quality" parts. My first engine went well into it's first year with no problems and then broke on the 7th weekend. The build on it....it was a completely stock lower end with 19k street miles on it with only the top end requirements. My present engine is totally aftermarket, very well balanced, etc and it is now 4 weekends down and no problems. I plan to run it all of next year and freshen it for the Runoffs...provided I can qualify this coming year. Builders are everywhere that race engines are built. There are of course some AS specialty places like Rebello, Victory and a few others that I can't think of right off the top of my head. My engine was built by a guy named Butch Smith who has a shop about 45 min from my house and who does mainly dirt late model and sprint car engines. So far so good. Give him the rules and let him do his thing! Hope this all helps.

Jon
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  #5  
Old 11-21-2006, 01:05 PM
kbsmith1 kbsmith1 is offline
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This year I put 6 race weekends (one was a 3 day double race weekend)
on a freshened chevy with all good aftermarket parts. The freshening only
replaced gaskets & valve springs after a 5 weekend race season last year.
Everything else (including bearings & rings) was reused because they were
good. I disassemble and inspect/replace parts every winter, and try to
do something like 6-12 races a season.

In 2003, I put 13 races onto a brand-new engine, but broke on the 13th
weekend, cast crank came apart.

All engines mentioned chassis dynoed at 315 RWHP, so they were
pretty decent engines HP wise.
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1993 Firebird AS #03 Oregon Region SCCA & ICSCC
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  #6  
Old 11-21-2006, 02:28 PM
djt65
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Dan, glad to hear I might have someone else to race against in area 5 regionals. As you are in Wi. I used an engine builder in Kenosha called LAM. I am completely happy with the work that he did for me. I to am on a limited budget, and his motor gave me no trouble what so ever.

Doug
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  #7  
Old 11-22-2006, 10:47 AM
t4wallace t4wallace is offline
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Default Welcome

Dan,

You are interested in the best class SCCA has to offer and the more the merrier. The good thing about this forum is that you are exposed to what is currently happening (making it even better). What might seem like chaos here is really some passionate people trying to make the class even better and more balanced between manufacturers.

Weaved throughout the site are some great posts with helpful advice for just about everything. Get to know the rules. They are somewhat disfunctional, but KNOW them so that you can form your own opinion. I'd suggest reading them BEFORE you rent so that you can have a good idea about the car you rent if you do not know the person.

Renting is a good choice to get your feet wet. Just make sure what you're renting is a good car. I'd hate to see you soured on AS because the car you ran was not good.

You can run either GM gen. and it'll be competitive. We're (OK, maybe me) working to make it even more so for the 3rd gen. Powertrains are the same for each make, no matter what generation you run. To me, that's one of the reasons the class is so good. Same engine in a 3rd or 4th gen GM and the same engine in a Fox Body or an 05. Transmissions are/can be common and GM can run a Ford 9-in. rear. These are just some basics, so read the rules.

Jon is right about AS regional competition if you are in CenDiv/Great Lakes. It's a strong nationally-based region. Not sure how the split will effect that, but in the past, there have been 8-10 (ave.) AS car counts at national events. Run where you are comfortable, but I suggest a couple of regionals to get your AS mojo on if you're sure it's something that you'll pursue before you run nationally. Depends on how your personality and ego work.

What it'll "cost" and how much you'll spend on engines is a good news/bad news answer. AS is not immune to the racing curse: (over)spending in the wrong places. But that's up to you. You can get into a good 3rd gen GM for around $10K, or much less if you get a roller w/o powertrain. Some Mustangs are also available in this range, but I don't know Fords to know whether they're good or not. Cost to run AS is very debated point on this site. Engines will last based on what you put into them and how you treat them. There is no reason to believe that an engine can't go a 6 race + Runoffs season and only require an over-the-winter freshening.

My advice is that if you're not prepared to have at least $20K tied up in your car at some point (incl. powertrain), then it might be out of perspective to think that you can regularly contend for a National/Runoffs win. That's not meant to discourage, it's meant to keep it real. There are some on this site that are nationally competitive for less, but they're doing much of their own work, or build their own engines etc. And that's not to say that you can't run regionally for less than that. But its' another great aspect about this class: there is much you can do on your own and many that run the class that will help you if you ask.

We took this year )06) off, but run 3rd gen GM and are willing to answer questions or help in any way we can.

Hope this encourages you to come and play in our reindeer games.
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Tom Wallace
Great Lakes, Detroit Region
Hoosier Tire

Last edited by t4wallace; 11-22-2006 at 12:46 PM. Reason: Kevin read what I wrote!
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  #8  
Old 11-22-2006, 12:37 PM
kbsmith1 kbsmith1 is offline
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Location: Hillsboro, OR
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Tom, Did you really mean to say

"There is no reason to believe that an engine can go a 6 race + Runoffs season and only require an over-the-winter freshening."

Or did you really mean that it was reasonable to believe that an engine
can go a 6 race + Runoffs season and only require and over-the winter
freshening.
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1993 Firebird AS #03 Oregon Region SCCA & ICSCC
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  #9  
Old 11-22-2006, 12:44 PM
kbsmith1 kbsmith1 is offline
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Location: Hillsboro, OR
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Dan,

I completely agree with Tom that this is the best class in SCCA. It would be
very hard to find more racing bang for the buck than AS in my opinion. You get to race powerful cars, generally with big car counts. Driver skill and car setup count for a lot, because the cars are (IMO) pretty tire limited. The cars are mostly "simple" enough that much of the work can be done yourself if you are so inclined. I also agree that the best thing to do is to get the rule book, and read and understand it, ask questions, most people on this forum will be extremely helpful.
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1993 Firebird AS #03 Oregon Region SCCA & ICSCC
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  #10  
Old 11-22-2006, 12:49 PM
t4wallace t4wallace is offline
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Location: White Lake, Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbsmith1
Tom, Did you really mean to say

"There is no reason to believe that an engine can go a 6 race + Runoffs season and only require an over-the-winter freshening."

Or did you really mean that it was reasonable to believe that an engine
can go a 6 race + Runoffs season and only require and over-the winter
freshening.
Thanks Kevin.

What I meant to say is that you should expect to run 6 National races and the Runoffs and require only a freshening.

This is based on good regular maintenance and knowing that you should change oil (especially if it got hot), know that 250 water temp on a 60-degree day is a warning sign, that you change your filter often and cut it open to see what it's telling you. Stuff like that.
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Tom Wallace
Great Lakes, Detroit Region
Hoosier Tire
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