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Old 10-12-2010, 10:52 AM
jimwheeler jimwheeler is offline
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Default R.O. tech, is this enough

At the Runoffs, the top three cars, and (then the fourth place car) had this done:
Compression Ratio check (with the whistler)
Valve lift measured
Carb removed and tested with go-no-go gauges
Rear suspension inspection
Intake manifold checked for part number and unmodified divider

Andy's car also had:
one head removed
Pair of valves removed, to check for work in the valve port

The second place car had a non-compliant spacer/heat shield between the carburetor and the manifold. That was written up and the action then went through the appeals process, with the COA letting the DQ stand. This brought the fourth place car into the shed.


The question is: Do you consider this to be a good post race Tech?
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  #2  
Old 10-12-2010, 11:58 AM
KW78
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It is a pretty reasonable list, but it could be better.

One of the problems is that there is no significant tech throughout the year. None of these cars have been looked at - I for one only got weighed at each of the nationals I went to.

I think, once again, that the competitors need a 30 min inspection period after each of the sessions. With only 19 cars, that would be easy to do.

Or maybe, a class expert should be in the tech shed with a freelance license (not a predetermined list) to look them over all week. One that knows what matters to the racing, not looking for marker lights.

This year, I would have like to have seen a few other things checked that would be easy, like tranny ratios, for example.

What was tech'd during the qualifying?

The Spec Miata tech was very shallow also, as was the T3 tech, at least during the week.

Kyle
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Old 10-12-2010, 01:57 PM
t4wallace t4wallace is offline
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Preface: we weren't there this year.

To what Kyle was getting at, I have always thot the qual. mid week impounds have been "weak." Back in the day, when the class came to the Runoffs the first 2-3 years, the midweek impounds were MUCH more inclusive. Things like carbs, fuel and intakes were checked then. As were things like gear ratios, header size and rear suspensions.

Jim -- Is there a reason (especially at the current car count level) that can't happen to ensure that the competitors are being assisted (not gotcha'd) into bringing their cars into compliance PRIOR to the race? Hell, whistle some cars during the week. Maybe even send a message and whistle some cars during the week. Not saying these items wouldn't be checked again, but this way, the racer gets the chance to correct something they might not even know or intend to be out of compliance. Imagine if the carb screws (simple visual inspection) could have been handled this way last year?

With recent rule flux, seems this could be best for the class on many fronts.

Overall, I would suggest the winner should be ready to hand the inspector their crank. When's the last time a transmission case was cracked open for an internal inspection or the case material checked?
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  #4  
Old 10-12-2010, 03:50 PM
SedanMan SedanMan is offline
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Default Goldilocks Tech

Seems like the pendulum swings a bit too far one way (pulling engines out of all 3 top finishers), then a bit too far the other way (no engine disassembly, no transmission checks....ratios, synchros). Hopefully soon we can get it juuuuust right.

Jim, when you said the engines were 'whistled' for compression ratio, did that also include a displacement check? If there is a way (P&G meter?) to check for a cylinder's displacement without pulling the engine and measuring bore and stroke then in my opinion that should be mandatory for all top finishers.

Given that our AS Specification Table has so many different minimum car weights based on engine displacement it seems odd that we would not measure displacement and just take everyone's word for how big their engine was (or wasn't).

Sounds like horsepower-related things were checked but since Road America also rewards cars with great brakes perhaps just a quick check for rotor width and diameter compliance, and # of pistons per caliper, would be in order.

Lastly, I agree with Tom that pre-race inspection is a good thing for our class. Jim, imagine if your rear camber issue was written up after the race instead of simply being pointed out during a pre-race inspection. I think anyone would rather do a bit of work in the pits before the race rather than be disqualified after the race.
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Old 10-12-2010, 04:25 PM
jimwheeler jimwheeler is offline
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Good comments, all.
The ASAC put together a list of items that they considered important for a legal class. These items were submitted to the tech folks for AS at the Runoffs sometime earlier in the season. Most of what you have mentioned was on the list. The list is then out of the hands of the racers (and the ASAC and the CRB).

During qualifying impound, we were weighed, our fuel was checked and the air cleaners were removed to have the Holly checked. They looked at some other things, but I am not sure what they were looking at, since I was talking to some of the other guys in impound and didn't pay much attention.

Bill, having the camber checked in Q impound saved me, for sure.

John Blanchard, the Chairman of the ASAC was only able to go for the race, so he was not available during Q impound. He did have an impound pass and was there for post race inspections. I am sure some of this will be discussed when they meet again, tomorrow night, and in the future.

wheel


wheel
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Old 10-12-2010, 06:40 PM
Danny"TheKid"Richardson Danny"TheKid"Richardson is offline
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First of all i want to say that i do not want to point fingers or claim that the top cars were cheating. That being said, i believe that the tech for AS this year was really weak. It almost seemed like they were keeping it simple to avoid what happened in 09. In drag racing, when a car is put into tech, the car is ripped apart. I believe that is a little extreme but checking nothing but fuel and carbs is too light. I think that two or three items should be check in every sub category. Category examples= Powertrain, suspension, brakes, body, and more.

Honestly, we run a legal car. When Jim and Jeff came and told me the hatch i bought after blowing mine was non compliant because of the spoiler, i immediately fixed the issue. I know most of us run legal cars, but for instance in the hatch situation, someone could do something they do not realize is illegal and it could be unfair.

Time to stop ranting.
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Old 10-13-2010, 10:46 AM
Mark Allen Mark Allen is offline
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I think the comments about checking displacement are right on. If we're pulling a head in post-race tech then checking bore / stroke is a no brainer.

With regards to during the week tech I think that the number of things checked should be comprehensive but should stop short of breaking seals (oil, coolant, etc). I just don't want to see someone pulling an intake during wednesday tech and then blowing coolant all over the track in a Friday race because they were re-installing the intake in the dark in 50 deg weather, outside and couldn't get things to seal correctly. Let's face it, unless the runoffs move back to Road Atlanta, midwest weather in September is sketchy at best. Could be 80, could be 40...........

That being said, during the week they could check all kinds of things that usually get glossed over but are non intrusive, some examples:

1) Carb items (discussed)
2) Brakes (size, pistons, etc)
3) Trans ratios
4) Suspension setup (number of springs, locations, coilovers, etc)
5) Are there any major parts illegally modified or missing (non factory control arms, bumpers, illegal ductwork, motor mounts, etc.
6) Whistled CR
7) etc, etc, etc....

Outside of last year (valve lift) we've had podium finishers in the last 10 years bounced for items that could be seen as improper without even pulling out a screwdriver (accel pumps, motor mounts (allegedly), etc). Mid week tech should focus on these items. Quick, clean, and could save someone from a bad weekend.

Thoughts?

Mark
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Old 10-13-2010, 02:24 PM
Tim White Tim White is offline
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What was checked during qualifying?
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Old 10-13-2010, 03:12 PM
Danny"TheKid"Richardson Danny"TheKid"Richardson is offline
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After the first qualifying session they asked for fuel and to take air filters off. (Carbs)
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  #10  
Old 10-15-2010, 07:40 PM
atimmons atimmons is offline
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Default Tech volunteers

As I understand it, there were ony three inspectors dedicated to the AS and ALL GT classes. I can see where you would think tech might have been light. I'm sure that other voluteers were present, but with three people trying to make sure that all are legal, they would be streched a little thin.
Anybody know a good Porsche Cup car mechanic willing to work tech?
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