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Old 10-12-2009, 04:55 PM
Mark Allen Mark Allen is offline
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Default Carb Screws

Well, I think I can see where tech decided that the "fasteners are free" rule did not apply with the carb.

3. Other than as provided for in these rules, the carburetor shall not be modified in any way. Any carburetor jets, accel-erator pump, pump cam, and accelerator pump nozzles may be used. Power valves, metering blocks, and floats may be altered or relaced. No venturi (including secondary or auxiliary) shall be modified in any way, but they may be aligned. Idle holes may be drilled in the throttle plates (butterflies). Carburetors may be modified to allow “four corner” idle adjustment.

That first sentence could be interpreted to supercede the fastener rule by some people. Something we need to clean up.

The way I see it (from what I understand please correct me if I'm wrong) is that the Holley rebuild parts have a longer butterfly screw than stock. Thus any modifications to that screw were interpreted to be a violation. Well what if, for example, Holley modifies the rebuild kit with slightly shorter but functional screws so now the replacement screws protrude 2 threads, the old replacement screws protrude 4 threads, and the factory screws are swaged. Now Tech's looking at multiple lengths, all legal, could be another mess.

The fix for this (if we want to do it) is to specifically call out fasteners in the carb paragraph I think.

Opinions?

Mark
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Old 10-12-2009, 05:01 PM
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jkopp jkopp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Allen
Opinions?
Sure, how about this:

The carburetor cannot be modified in ANY way except for changing jets - period! Buy a new carb if it's that bad! (Sorry Patrick but I could use the extra $650 I'll save not having to spend $1K on a carb and buy two spares in case my throttle plate shaft gets dirty and I can't seem to clean it out with good old carb clean)
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Old 10-12-2009, 05:13 PM
smithpr smithpr is offline
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Jeff:

That is the best idea I have seen on this forum in a long time.

Philip
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Old 10-12-2009, 05:22 PM
Walther
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OK, How would you enforce it?

Trust me, there are dozens of ways to modify a carb that would make substantial performance difference and be extremely difficult to discover during inspection. Air bleed sizes can be drilled, discharge nozzles can be drilled while still showing the original number stamped in them, accelerator cams can be filed and reshaped. etc, etc.
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Old 10-12-2009, 05:23 PM
KW78
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Again, sentence structure... English language etc...

All this is making my point in a very long winded way that there needs to be an Asedan SAGE in the tech process... not that I'm volunteering!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ""
3. Other than as provided for in these rules, the carburetor shall not be modified in any way.
What are "These Rules"?!! This appears to be a plural reference... Is it referencing the individual rule D.1.a.3?!! Or is it referencing the ASedan rules governing the class? Or is it referencing the rules below this rule in the text???

In my reading of this, one thing "provided for in these rules" is "Hardware items (nuts, bolts, etc.) may be replaced with similar
items performing the same fastening function(s)."

So is this confusing to people important to the compliance and enforcement process? OK, then ask the ASedan membership what they meant... because even the best contract lawyers in the world, which we don't have privy to as a resource, will not find every ambiguity in advance.

My .02
Kyle

Kyle
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Old 10-12-2009, 05:26 PM
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jkopp jkopp is offline
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Fine, take your chances. At least when we do find it there are no questions that you're done! Winning by cheating can only feel good to a special kind of person and you're never going to keep that person honest no matter what you do anyway so let's just KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid).
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Old 10-12-2009, 05:29 PM
KW78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithpr
Jeff:

That is the best idea I have seen on this forum in a long time.

Philip
Except I need to change the primary accelerator discharge amount at this altitude, as well as the jets... and if I can't take 2-4" of vacuum off of the power valve, either I'm rich enough at full throttle and scorching lean at maintenance in a corner, or too rich at full throttle.....

See where I am going? I'm sure that is how we got where we are today...

I actually think our current carb rules are one of the areas needing the least attention....

Kyle

Last edited by KW78; 10-12-2009 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 10-12-2009, 05:31 PM
Walther
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkopp
Fine, take your chances. At least when we do find it there are no questions that you're done! Winning by cheating can only feel good to a special kind of person and you're never going to keep that person honest no matter what you do anyway so let's just KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid).
Jeff, you will find by searching the internet that several carb shops (maybe even Pro-Systems) offer "stock appearing" or "sportsman" carbs that are twice as much as a stock carb from Holley. If SCCA wasn't concerned with cheating, why the tech shed. Now you have to tear your engine down to the crank AND disassemble your carb to parade rest.

I'm just playing the role Devils Advocate, or trying to.
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Old 10-12-2009, 05:34 PM
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jkopp jkopp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KW78
Except I need to change the primary accelerator discharge amount at this altitude, as well as the jets... and if I can't take 2-4" of vacuum off of the power valve, either I'm rich enough at full throttle and scorching lean at maintenance in a corner, or too rich at full throttle.....

See where I am going? I'm sure that is how we got were we are today...

I actually think our current carb rules are one of the areas needing the least attention....

Kyle
Point well taken Kyle. My direction is not as literal as it appeared. I still like your notion to some how find a way for us to police ourselves. Pioneering approach that is long overdue IMO.
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Old 10-12-2009, 05:38 PM
KW78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkopp
I still like your notion to some how find a way for us to police ourselves. Pioneering approach that is long overdue IMO.

And a new off season inspiration for me... Am I a glutten or what...

Kyle
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