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  #11  
Old 01-11-2019, 03:08 PM
PbFoot PbFoot is offline
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The possible issue is these cars are quite a bit different than most all AS cars. Lower HP with ABS, big wheels, tires, wing and brakes. The way these cars will make lap times will be very different than a FP AS car

I ran against a Mustang 3 years ago that was very similar to a SMG. I could pull him down a long straight, but he was faster in the twisty bits. BTW this sets up a situation for bend sheet metal.

At Daytona these cars would get smoked, at Hallett they may dominate.

My guess is a SMG would not be competitive at Road Am. I don't have any experience at VIR so not sure how they will stack up there.

So I guess the top AS teams will need to have two cars, one for short tracks and one for high speed tracks, LOL.
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  #12  
Old 01-11-2019, 03:20 PM
scottdolsen scottdolsen is offline
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Ridiculous, but not surprising. My Fox is going to make a great Chumpcar!
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  #13  
Old 01-12-2019, 11:25 AM
nomics nomics is offline
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Default Just for conversation

What if they have to remove their wings and are adjusted by weight like the rest of us?
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  #14  
Old 01-14-2019, 02:44 PM
PamRichardson PamRichardson is offline
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Default Letter 26263 Posted to ASAC Letter list

Below is what is in the letter I posted.

Pam

-----------

Please reconsider your decision to add SMG to American Sedan. This is now the third attempt to do this. In the previous two attempts, the ASAC put out a WDYT to the community asking if the community wanted this. Each time, the community OVERWHELMINGLY said no.

Some history. The SMG leader/builder, David Ray, first approached SCCA about either creating a new National class or adding SMG to an existing SCCA National class during a staff visit to Laguna Seca (prior to the Runoffs there). Mr. Ray wanted his regional class car to be able to compete in the Runoffs. After the AS community rejected the push to put SMG in AS the first time, SMG was added to T2. It became clear quickly that SMG was not as capable as other T2 cars, so Mr. Ray requested that SCCA put SMG somewhere else. AS was considered again, the community voted it down again. STU was considered, and the STU community voted it down as well. Recently, after the Sonoma Runoffs, SMG requested a change to T3. The T3 community voted it down.

Now it appears, with no WDYT to the AS community, the CRB has decided to put SMG into AS for 2019. The SMG response on their Facebook webpage has been to promote the building and sale of new SMG cars, as potentially the AS Champion at VIR.

Besides the politics of this situation, here are some technical reasons why SMG does not belong in AS.

Note: References to "the car" means the SMG.

1. The car has ABS. No AS car has ABS.

2. Their rear suspension kit allows replacement coilover shocks (the stock version of the car does not have coilovers in the rear), replacement front A arms that did not come with the car, and adjustable, tubular rear trailing arms (also did not come with the car). In AS none of these modifications are permitted for ANY existing AS car.

3. It comes with a fixed rear wing from Steeda and front splitter options that, both front and rear, exceed AS rules.

4. The most challenging allowance they have is that their "must be completely stock from Ford" engines are controlled by a dyno requirement, not to exceed 315 RWHP and 325 RW Torque. No class in SCCA has this requirement. There is no defined certification process, and no way to Tech this requirement. Engines are not required to have the engines sealed, or controlled by oil weights, timing, etc. on the dyno, to meet this requirement. And there is no way to Tech this rule. Cars are not required to bring an owners manual with them for Tech to check specifications such as compression ratio, cam lift, duration, etc., throttle body size and so on. Therefore, Tech will not know if the motor is completely stock or meets the HP/Torque requirement.

At the most recent Runoffs, the fastest T2 SMG, in the T2 race, was 1 second faster than our top 4 AS cars.

Finally, if this is an attempt to boost AS numbers on the West Coast, there are about 12 SMG cars there, and none across the country. How many will come to the Majors races?

At the very least, a WDYT should be provided to the community.

Thank you, Pam Richardson
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  #15  
Old 01-14-2019, 04:42 PM
Richard Pryor Richard Pryor is offline
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Default First win for smg a sedan at sonoma

Clark Nunes, in an SMG Mustang, won the Majors A Sedan race today in the rain at Sonoma, beating multi-time Runoffs Champion driver Kevin Fandozzi. Clark also won the dry Sunday preliminary race. So 2 for 2 for SMG AS. As a note, while Kevin is a top flight driver it is my opinion that Clark, a good driver, is not of the caliber of a top of the pyramid driver like Kevin. Make of the results what you will. For all the reasons stated in Pam's letter, and others, I believe that SMG will be the car to have to win the Runoffs in 2019.

Last edited by Richard Pryor; 01-14-2019 at 05:05 PM.
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  #16  
Old 01-14-2019, 04:57 PM
Tim White Tim White is offline
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Are there lap times available from Sonoma? I looked in Speedhive and scca.com.
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  #17  
Old 01-14-2019, 05:25 PM
Richard Pryor Richard Pryor is offline
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Default Lap times

I don't have the first session lap times, but Kevin Fandozzi was quicker than Clark Nunes. In the Sunday Sprint race, in the dry, Nunes passed Fandozzi and finished two seconds ahead for the win. Nunes: 1:52.450 Fandozzi: 1.51.634

Monday Majors race Nunes won by around 3 seconds. Fastest lap times in the rain ended up at 2.24.883 for Nunes and 2.24.683 for Fandozzi.

Nunes had no problem taking control and maintaining the gap to Fandozzi.
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  #18  
Old 01-15-2019, 12:28 AM
MarkMuddiman MarkMuddiman is offline
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Every time a Fox dares to be competitive, it earns 100#.
This weekend's results should be worth at least that.
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  #19  
Old 01-15-2019, 01:28 AM
MarkMuddiman MarkMuddiman is offline
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Excellent letter Pam.
I'll send in my own in support.

ABS and the wing are definitely game-changers and inconsistent with the class philosophy.

We haven't heard from anyone on the ASAC yet, but I spoke to BOD member Marcus Merideth this afternoon.
He tells me that the ASAC and CRB approved this, in a huge rush so as to get it posted by the weekend.
Also, there is a proposal to make SMG cars legal in T3 in addition to AS, but the T3AC didn't respond in time for this memo. That is a new precedent in SCCA to have a car legal in two classes without modification.

He did not say whether there was a clear intent to change the AS class philosophy.
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  #20  
Old 01-16-2019, 11:13 AM
Scott Sanda Scott Sanda is offline
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For years, The Adhoc was made up of people who tried very hard to both modernize AS, and to keep the core concept competitive, durable and as reasonable as possible.

We worked to balance FP and RP, tried to keep the FP cars as equal as possible, and tried to bring in relatively inexpensive FI power plants.

It was not always successful, there were always people who got upset, there were always people who felt prosecuted (Fox guys.....).

However, there was never any doubt that while there was disagreement, the Ad hoc was trying to keep AS alive, and help it grow. We had a CRB that supported the goals, and listened to the Ad hoc.

Now, the Ad hoc has pretty much all been fired, and we have a CRB that simply does nothing but cater to personal pet interests. Case in point is ramming through the Spec mustang.

What Pam didn't mention is that we spent months trying to work with the spec mustang guys to make their cars fit in, and they refused to make any changes. Eliminate the abs and the wing - Nope. OK, bring the tires down to AS sizes - nope. Etc. Etc.

Now it is passed by star chamber meetings, literally over night.

I do not know where the class is going to end up, but be prepared for changes. Provided I don't sell it (and I don't need to, I just want to see it running), I was planning on sticking my son into the Caddy after he gets another season of experience under his belt with the SRF, because I still feel that my car, as built, can win any given race with a good enough driver. Now, I need to re think all of that and see what happens.

Scott
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