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Old 06-02-2015, 11:42 AM
Talladega Talladega is offline
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Default My outlook of A/S after 20 years and cost

Maybe I will loose some of you on what I write and maybe I wont,
Maybe some will agree and some wont, But I feel A/S has come a long way,
in cost and prep, through the years.

Look at brakes, years ago I used 2 sets of D 412 pfc 81s or 01s in the front
at a cost of over 200 bucks a set and a set of rotors a weekend . 500-600 bucks.
Now I get a couple weekends out of pads and a lot more out of rotors,
great savings for all of us.

Look at the motors , blocks,cranks, valvetrain , were all allowed good stuff we buy once and use a long time if taken care of .
The days of rebuilding and replacing cranks ,blocks every 3 races are gone,
Yes it is a high cost at first but once done they last a lot longer.

Same deal with the Trans and susp. done right they stay put and don't break
and wheel hop is gone.

One thing that hasn't changed is the cost of tires and the amount you use of them.
at 1200 a set maybe? so say if you want to run up front it cost you 2500 for tires a weekend at a major?
But that's racing and the cost of it for a win or top 5 .
Maybe some managed tires well and got a weekend major out of one set of
R7s maybe even A7s and I saw a some guys selling 2 heat cycle tires if you needed them or if they would sell them to you in there trailer.

Just looking at MO I saw the top 5-6 cars with stickers on for both Qual
That's great if you have a tire deal and I no the guys that Qual 7-13th would love to have tires like that.

A lot of racing series have implemented rules on tires no matter what brand you have or series it is to lower the cost of racing and to manage tire cost for
everyone.

Some race series implement a rule that states you use the same tires you Qual on
for the same race weekend and are marked by race officers and only allowed to change them if you cut down a tire , and allowed to change the tire if approved by race officials .

It has saved a lot of money and evened the fields and cost and made tire management important to all the racers.
Tire company's might not like it and some racers don't like it , but the rule is the same for everybody to manage your tires and setups for the weekend .

Would that ever happen in A/S or any other class in SCCA , I don't think so,
But it is just my thought of doing more racing and making things even ,
Just like the saving we have all got with the engine , trans and brake rules changed in the last 20 years to help the cost of things.

Yea as Mark M has told me no one will understand what im writing about ,
But than the top 5 will hate the tire deal and the rest would love it.

Yea I no, some would flat spot the fronts so they would be allowed to get a new set, but than that might work once but not twice,

Let the Flames Begin lol
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Old 06-02-2015, 01:28 PM
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My biggest complaint is why arent we allowed to run E85. We already have fuel systems that will handle it.

Its about $360.00 to convert a 4776 carb to E85 and fuel is $2.00 a gallon.

The engine will make a little more power and run 15-20 degrees cooler.

I have hundreds of guys racing circle track on E85, no idea why its not allowed.

Patrick James
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Old 06-02-2015, 02:01 PM
jimwheeler jimwheeler is offline
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To both of you. First, tires. I ran one set of Hoosier A's in every session at Hallett, winning both races. They are in great condition and I will run them at the Kansas Speedway. This is not even the better A7 tire. At Heartland Park, you can barely finish a race on sticker A's, but that is the track, not the tire. Yes, tires are expensive, but if you can't get several race weekends out of a set of tires, something is wrong with your set-up.

E85 has been discussed, extensively, for a number of years. I know the formula guys have asked for it on a couple of occasions. The major issue was that it did not pass any of the test that SCCA uses for weed out the fuels that at toxic and cost $40 per gallon. Not sure what the answer is for that one.
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Old 06-19-2015, 04:53 PM
Talladega Talladega is offline
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Default Tires

Jim ,
I don't mean to bust your bubble about tires Jim ,,
But maybe if I raced Mid States Conference
With 3-4 cars a race I could get away with one set of tires.

Come to the NE or SE
Were you have 10 cars or more A/S cars in the race weekend.
Guys like John H,Andy M,Danny R,Ed H,Phil S,Tom E,Tom S, Bill B,

There's more Nat Champs here every Major weekend than you will race against in one race all year Jim.

Every Major Weekend!!!
And most have tire deals, so if you don't have 2 , maybe 3 sets of tires
for the weekend , than just hope you place in the top 5-8 on one set Maybe!!

Id like to see a rule like WC does , you race on what you Qual on for the
weekend,
Than lets see who comes out ahead,

And as always I lost everyone on this but , the people that wont like it are the guys with tire deals and the ones that would like to see it don't have tire deals but wish they did.

Would a tire rule ever pass the A/S committee?
No I don't think so ,
Why?
Cuz almost everyone on it has a tire deal.

Let the Flame begin,lol
T



Quote:
Originally Posted by jimwheeler View Post
To both of you. First, tires. I ran one set of Hoosier A's in every session at Hallett, winning both races. They are in great condition and I will run them at the Kansas Speedway. This is not even the better A7 tire. At Heartland Park, you can barely finish a race on sticker A's, but that is the track, not the tire. Yes, tires are expensive, but if you can't get several race weekends out of a set of tires, something is wrong with your set-up.

E85 has been discussed, extensively, for a number of years. I know the formula guys have asked for it on a couple of occasions. The major issue was that it did not pass any of the test that SCCA uses for weed out the fuels that at toxic and cost $40 per gallon. Not sure what the answer is for that one.
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:12 AM
Ted Johnson Ted Johnson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talladega View Post

And as always I lost everyone on this but , the people that wont like it are the guys with tire deals and the ones that would like to see it don't have tire deals but wish they did.

Would a tire rule ever pass the A/S committee?
No I don't think so ,
Why?
Cuz almost everyone on it has a tire deal.

Let the Flame begin,lol
T

Rock on Joe. But be careful. Posts like this end up disappearing from existence sometimes. Like former asac members willing to speak up for the lower buck guys. But I'm sure the proper response you will get is. "Write a letter".
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Old 06-20-2015, 01:38 PM
PamRichardson PamRichardson is offline
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Default Tires

Joe --

First, I do encourage a letter to get the ASAC discussing it. Without a letter, it won't be addressed.

Second, one needs to think about the situation a bit from an engineering standpoint. AS cars are very heavy and put a lot of stress and strain on everything, including tires. At the Majors, with the length of time on track with, say, the one set of tires for the weekend, the Club would be forcing onto the competitors, perhaps unsafe situations with tires having failures. Let's face it, not everyone is the same in terms of how hard they are on tires.

If you are at a Majors race and qualify on a set, they will be marked by Tech as you come into the pits after your session. The way Formula Mazda rules are written (my interpretation), if there are 2 quals or more, one can run different sets of tires for the quals, and perhaps have Tech mark that set 1 is for Saturday's race, and set 2 is for Sunday's race. If there is only one qual, the rule is waived for the weekend. Doesn't mean AS has to write things the same as FM. But, if we did, then competitors could qual 2 sets of new tires, one for Saturday's race and one for Sunday's. Then you are back to the same issue, people that can qual two sets do. And, if a tire has an issue, you go back to Tech to show them the problem and you can only replace a bad tire with another used one (FM rule).

You may remember when SCCA wanted to define a spec tire for AS, and the strong concerns expressed by many, so the situation was dropped. I would be concerned similarly about a restriction on race what you qualify on. Don't know how others would feel.

Final note. I know this is hard for some people to believe, but, the ASAC works very hard to NOT make decisions based on their own programs. Members speak up (including me) if the decision making progress is heading in a direction to benefit one person's program.

The talent that you mentioned is very real. I can say that the Danny program has included not only the improvements of his talents, in many ways, but, engineering and setup changes and improvements from the crew, and crew chief (me). I personally do a lot of research for the program and I ask a lot of people a lot of questions. What I have found is that as the program and the driver improve, the results improve. And, it is not just tires... (people used to think it was engines! )

I've said it here several times, and will continue to do so. Always improve your programs and your skills. That is how you move up.

Pam
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:56 PM
Ted Johnson Ted Johnson is offline
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Default Who has the tire deals.

Joe.

Which asac members have tire deals?

Is it speculation or fact?

How many sets of tires are they receiving from Hoosier? Plus I assume they still receive tires for race wins on top of the original handout? Just looking for facts on this.
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Old 06-22-2015, 02:25 PM
jimwheeler jimwheeler is offline
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Joe,
The FF community wrote in letters asking for a spec tire for FF. The FSRAC and the CRB did an extensive poll of the FF drivers and came up with a recommendation for a spec tire. The SCCA has now sent out a request to the tire manufacturers to see what kind of deal they would offer to the FF racers. When those are received, the SCCA will work out a deal that should benefit the class.
As to bursting my bubble, I agree that I don't run against Andy, etc. every week, but I am still setting track records and winning races on tires that have multiple weekends on them. Hoosiers seem to be quicker after a few heat cycles than stickers, in my experience.
wheel
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Old 06-22-2015, 02:28 PM
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wre46 wre46 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Johnson View Post
Joe.

Which asac members have tire deals?

Is it speculation or fact?

How many sets of tires are they receiving from Hoosier? Plus I assume they still receive tires for race wins on top of the original handout? Just looking for facts on this.
I am not sure why it matters how many ASAC members have a tire deal. If we had to use a spec tire, I would say it would be an issue.

Do you want to know how to get a tire deal? I can speak from previous experience. I have had tire deals on my Autocross car, ITC car, GT-5 car and my AS car. Companies want to see their products on cars that do the following:
1. Run up front
2. Well prepared and maintained (this means clean and straight)
3. Drivers who can give feedback to tire Engineers.
4. Teams that are willing to test on non-race weekends
5. Driver that will not tarnish the manufacturers reputation (Even if it was an issue with the tires..always blame it on the brakes!)
6. Drivers who promote the performance to other up and coming drivers
7. Drivers who keep great records to relay info to tire engineers. I cannot tell you how many times the tire engineer has made suggestions that have let us make serious improvements to our program.

To say you need to have 2 sets per weekend is about right, assuming you are running a double weekend. If you car is setup perfect, you should only need 2 to 3 laps to qualify if your program is strong.

To establish a good re pore with your tire guy, meet with them as soon you get to the track,work with them at the end of the session. They can help you with air pressures, tire wear, suspension setup etc.

Bottom line, you have to spend money to make money. Its all about the level of competition you want to run at.
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Old 06-22-2015, 02:56 PM
Danny"TheKid"Richardson Danny"TheKid"Richardson is offline
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All,
For what its worth, after the two race weekends on the hoosier A7 i have been incredibly impressed with their durability. So much so that I will be going to watkins with only 1 set of stickers. As far as the class is concerned, i got to play in a restricted prep mustang the other day at Summit Point. I was astonished at how incredible and durable that car was. If the old 15 car was completely destroyed RP is the way to go. Initial cost may be higher but man you make your money back on motors brakes etc.

Cheers!

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