Go Back   American Sedan Forum > Misc > Polls

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-30-2006, 09:07 AM
jimwheeler jimwheeler is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 5,205
Default New Poll coming

A new poll will be posted shortly. Jeff Kopp is working out the mechanics of getting it up and running. This is an engine/weight poll only and does not address any of the other suggestions that you have sent to me. Please read the questions carefully. Most require an answer, but some do not.
When it asks for a weight recommendation, it wants total weight, not what you would add or subtract from current weights. So if you feel the GM with the current 305 is a base weight, like in Bill's model, then you would add weight for new engines or new chassis, and subtract for cars that you feel need help. Post the total weight for each engine chassis combination.

You have one shot at this poll, so there will be no stacking of the statistics and everyone will have an equal vote. And, regional and national drivers' opinions count the same.
We will give the poll some time to run it's course and post the results, which will also be relayed to the AdHoc committee.

If this one is successful, we will do some more on other topics. Jeff has paid for access to the polling system himself, and upgraded it to restrict you to a single vote. So, special thanks to the Kopper.
Jim Wheeler
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-30-2006, 09:44 AM
Mark Allen Mark Allen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Washington, MI
Posts: 643
Default

Thanks Kopper. Can't wait to see the results.

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-30-2006, 10:12 AM
t4wallace t4wallace is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: White Lake, Michigan
Posts: 1,430
Default It's a Privilege, Not a Right

Thanks to both of you gentlemen.

Now, everybody vote. Got AS friends that haven't been on the site? Get them to join the site. And if they do nothing else but vote, we'll take that.

This is much more important than voting for the president

That was a joke and not the opinion of this site, the moderator or any of the future advertisers.

Vote dammit.

TW
__________________
Tom Wallace
Great Lakes, Detroit Region
Hoosier Tire
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-30-2006, 10:42 AM
koscieldrk's Avatar
koscieldrk koscieldrk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: S.E. Michigan
Posts: 888
Default

Seeing as this is basically a GM driven Website the results I am sure will be skewed in your favor. After all 3 GM guys on the ADHOC and 1 Ford member. I am sure you will get what you want regardless of the poll weather it be fair or not. My .02
__________________
Dwaine (Speed)
A/Sedan #75 / 76 Retired
Crew Chief #15 Steve Hynes

Mustangs are Like Women,...You Have to Put Up With a Lot of Crap to Get What You Want, But When They Perform, Life Is Good.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-30-2006, 11:34 AM
koscieldrk's Avatar
koscieldrk koscieldrk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: S.E. Michigan
Posts: 888
Default

Nobody called you anything. Don't read into it what you want to read into it. 3 to 1 on ADHOC. So in voting or advising to the rules makers who has the majority. Just about everypost is is driven by GM guys, anytime a Ford guy says anything the whole bunch of GM guys just jump all over it negatively. I never said the poll would be fixed. More GM guys use this forum than anyone else, so in my opinion, mind you the poll will favor GM. That is the skew. So if you think I insulted you I appologize, in no way was my comment meant to offend anyone.
__________________
Dwaine (Speed)
A/Sedan #75 / 76 Retired
Crew Chief #15 Steve Hynes

Mustangs are Like Women,...You Have to Put Up With a Lot of Crap to Get What You Want, But When They Perform, Life Is Good.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-30-2006, 12:03 PM
t4wallace t4wallace is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: White Lake, Michigan
Posts: 1,430
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by koscieldrk
Nobody called you anything. Don't read into it what you want to read into it. 3 to 1 on ADHOC. So in voting or advising to the rules makers who has the majority. Just about everypost is is driven by GM guys, anytime a Ford guy says anything the whole bunch of GM guys just jump all over it negatively. I never said the poll would be fixed. More GM guys use this forum than anyone else, so in my opinion, mind you the poll will favor GM. That is the skew. So if you think I insulted you I appologize, in no way was my comment meant to offend anyone.
Dwaine -- you said it would be skewed. That implies/says that the data is not useful. Nobody is stopping anybody from voting. If more GM votes are cast, then there will be a bias to what the GM'rs vote. That's how polling works. So, get the Ford people to vote.

The posts here are driven to GM bias for many reasons. I believe this is primarily because there is no reason to run GM right now -- especially a 3rd gen. And that has many frustrated. Don't believe me (since you haven't in the past)? Look at the participation and pay attention to the Ford vs. GM car count. Then look at what the GM car is. That's the telling factor. There are many reasons, but the clearest is the current performance advantage that Ford has, especially under the hood. Yes, I have a 3rd gen dog in this fight. Two actually. And they are parked for a reason. Again, what you're calling negativity is more like frustration. And you "poke the tiger" (I do too) with statements that are not supported by other Fold folks. If they have your six, then get them on here and we'll have discussion.

Something HAS to change or the class will be Spec Mustang and then recede to a regional only class. Why keep pushing for that?

Maybe you should take up your campaign/concern with Andy since he's the "Lone Ford Voice" on the committee (in your opinion). I've said it before, we need to hear the Ford people (from all levels), but not the "GM wants domination, don't let them have it" mantra. That doesn't help and that's not what's happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by koscieldrk
Seeing as this is basically a GM driven Website the results I am sure will be skewed in your favor. After all 3 GM guys on the ADHOC and 1 Ford member. I am sure you will get what you want regardless of the poll weather it be fair or not. My .02
What I want is for the class to continue on with a rule set that addresses the shortcomings of the performance imbalance, opens the doors for parts and more affordable engines, and makes it possible for a 3rd gen to compete for a Runoffs win. That is simply not possible under the current rule set. Nowhere did I say:
Slow the Mustangs down
Take away Ford power
Make a fox-body obsolete
Close the door on future cars in the class

Gathering opinions from a poll is about the only place we can start. If you have a better idea, then let's hear it.

TW
__________________
Tom Wallace
Great Lakes, Detroit Region
Hoosier Tire
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-30-2006, 10:02 PM
jericker
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dwaine, don't forget that the GM guys only get one vote and can't "stack" the poll. As long as us Ford guys (I already have) vote, then the poll might even favor the Ford guys because there are far more Ford's in the class right now than GM'ers. Think about that one!

Jon
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-31-2006, 03:37 AM
Mark Allen Mark Allen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Washington, MI
Posts: 643
Default Ford vs. GM

I have to agree with Tom on this one. Yeah, right now there are more GM voices screaming for a change because they are the ones who feel that there is an imbalance. It wasn't too long ago when we were discussing engine infant mortality when there were nothing but Ford voices screaming about cast cranks and bad blocks. Were there any GM voices complaining about our cranks? Not many, if any. There certainly weren't any GM guys complaining about block failures. There was a REAL problem though that was Ford specific and needed to be corrected. It has and the GM contingent did not stand in the way.

Let's also remember that while the Ad Hoc committee is 75% GM biased today that was not always the case. For several years the participation was skewed the other way. Why? Probably because at the time the Ford boys had more issues with engines and the rules, they signed up and participated in order to insure that their voice was heard. Now, overall, the Ford camp is pretty happy with the rules and the GM camp isn't. Hence, you end up with a lot more GM guys finding the time in their schedule to participate for what they feel is the betterment of the class. It's cyclic and until some things get leveled probably will continue to be. If we screw up and manage to skew the rules way to the GM side, believe me there will be a line out the door of Ford guys waiting to sign up for the Ad Hoc committee.

With regards to the power disparity I don't think that we've heard from one Ford voice that's running at the front arguing that the power output of the engines is equal. When guys like Andy, Ed, Jeff, Martin, Tom (Sloe), Kyle, Monte etc. start saying that they believe that the power is equal and try to back it up with numbers and evidence like some of the GM folks have then there will probably be a more equitible debate. The fact is that none of those guys are trying to refute the claim that they're making more power. And believe me when I say that I'm not trying to imply that those guys are fast only because of their engine. They're good/great drivers and would be fast anyway, but they sure as hell aren't complaining about their motors. Nor should they be expected to, it's always the burden of those with the perceived disadvantage to prove their case and lobby to get the rules changed. GM guys weren't the ones complaining about Ford broken cranks and blocks, to a man I'm sure that they didn't really mind it. I'm sure Heinricy wasn't complaining 3 years ago when Andy blew up while leading.

The bottom line for me is that I would like to see our class leveled to where a good driver can win in everything from a FOX Mustang to an '09 Camaro. I don't want a class like Touring or Showroom Stock where the next big thing makes everyone elses shit obsolete. It's one thing if your race car is old and tired and used up and you decide to build a new one and go to the newer body style. It's another thing altogether to have a car that within the rules just can't be competitive and you HAVE to upgrade.

Sorry for the long windedness,

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-31-2006, 08:14 AM
koscieldrk's Avatar
koscieldrk koscieldrk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: S.E. Michigan
Posts: 888
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Allen
I have to agree with Tom on this one. Yeah, right now there are more GM voices screaming for a change because they are the ones who feel that there is an imbalance. It wasn't too long ago when we were discussing engine infant mortality when there were nothing but Ford voices screaming about cast cranks and bad blocks. Were there any GM voices complaining about our cranks? Not many, if any. There certainly weren't any GM guys complaining about block failures. There was a REAL problem though that was Ford specific and needed to be corrected. It has and the GM contingent did not stand in the way.


Mark
The engine block issue had nothing to do with power, more of reliability. I wouldn't have complained either. The B50 block isn't much better than the stock blocks except adding an extra 15 lbs. These blocks are also breaking, even with a main girdle.

One question I do have is why is the ADHOC committee made up of only people from 3 regions 2 of whom are from Cendiv. Would seem to me that every region should have a representative.
__________________
Dwaine (Speed)
A/Sedan #75 / 76 Retired
Crew Chief #15 Steve Hynes

Mustangs are Like Women,...You Have to Put Up With a Lot of Crap to Get What You Want, But When They Perform, Life Is Good.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-31-2006, 09:16 AM
Mark Allen Mark Allen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Washington, MI
Posts: 643
Default

I agree Dwaine, I understand that it was a durability issue. The point was that it was a durability issue that was completely Ford-Centric, and the only people complaining about durability were the Ford guys. That's all.

Mark
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.