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DBailey 03-22-2019 12:41 PM

I stand by my previous statement!!---

DHRMX5 04-03-2019 02:36 PM

Jim, you may win local races and finish mid pack at the Runoffs but 3-6 seconds off the Runoffs pace the last 3 years does not make your car or effort a contender. What would you have to spend to run up front, or at least in the top 3?

The results at the Atlanta race showed the well prepped/well driven AS cars were barely .6 seconds faster than Scotty Whites T3 V6 Mustang with 290rwhp and a heavier weight. Both T3 and AS set new track records that weekend. Results from VIR will be interesting, to say the least.

I would like to hear from the naysayers what McDermids budget is, or at least a fair estimate...

jimwheeler 04-03-2019 04:05 PM

I'm 73 years old and can't run with the top dogs anymore. As to my times at the Runoffs at tracks where I have never raced, that's to be expected. Bring the Runoffs to Heartland Park and I will dance with Andy and Heinricy, which I have done all three years when it was at Topeka. My car has set six track records in the past two seasons, bettering records set by very fast drivers.
There is no question that the new Mustangs, in Touring form, are really fast cars.

Tim White 04-03-2019 04:50 PM

Well, I have one of Andy's previous Runoffs engines and my car has sat on the pole at the Runoffs with the original owner behind the wheel, which leads me to believe the reason I finish mid-pack at the few Runoffs I've been too has more to do with me than car. I'm reminded of that every time the picture comes up on this site with Kyle leading the field around HPT. Talent has to play into this picture, Andy has a ton of it. I also know the tech and costs of Andy's engine is not radically different from what my previous engine was.

You say you get multiple weekends on A's, is that two or three. I'm pretty sure the car with fresh A's will be faster than the car on three weekend old A's. When I mentioned tire costs as the highest I was just giving my take, not that is what is keeping the class from growing.

I know why the Fox body Mustangs parked their cars and I wish that decision would be reversed. But I still don't believe we've really hit on the reason why many have parked their cars or why there is not the same growth as over a decade or two ago. I still love the class and would really like to see some good discussion on how to grow. Maybe we should start with the terms full prep and restricted prep, just seems like a negative term. Maybe just carb and FI.

andy mcdermid 04-03-2019 08:00 PM

DHRMX5, I think you are spot on with wheel size, it does help with tire life, let alone nobody makes a 17"-8" wheel that fits our cars.
I'm a Ford dealership tech for a living and my sponsors are gracious enough to help. I have been able to get 3 seasons out of our FP engines before thinking about a refresh. Most of the time it's just cylinder head stuff around the 3rd year.
I'm hoping that people are reading this thread and are getting inspired to pull their AS cars out of storage and race them.


wre46 04-03-2019 10:08 PM

I read DHRMX5 replay about budgets. I bought a used AS car and was surprised how many illegal parts were on it. I ended up rebuilding the car from scratch and it cost a lot of money as the rules changed everytime the GCR's came our. No dash, no recirculating brake systems, new heads, new brakes, new transmissions. It added up. But when you run up front at you Nationals/ Majors and you consistently qualify in the top 3 at the Runoffs, sponsors will come talk to you. We tried to do as much work in our own shop and promote the vendors we had working on our project to our fellow racers.

I have been to the Runoffs 10 times and have been on the Podium 8 times. I retired from AS due to the constant rule changes and the "interpretation" of the rules and the lack of respect of some fellow drivers.

Racing cost money..PERIOD! but having to keep up with the Jones after every rule change makes way too many used parts that are no longer worth anything. I have seen rules that have made car obsolete. has no fewer than 10 AS cars for sale at anyone time. I feel the Runoffs has lost it's luster due to the fact they move it every year. West Coast 2018 was a joke. Crown a National Champion with less than 3 cars finishing in a class? There are more cars entered at VIR next week than the 2018 Runoffs.

SCCA need to re-think its formula and you can start several regional races and you get an invite? Maybe a new rule at the Runoffs as the 110% rule is never enforced... When you get lapped, you get black flagged.

You want cheap racing...go by a Miata (can't way to see what those cars really cost to run up front)

Just my 2 cents Werth

jimwheeler 04-04-2019 07:54 PM

"Jim, you may win local races and finish mid pack at the Runoffs but 3-6 seconds off the Runoffs pace the last 3 years does not make your car or effort a contender. What would you have to spend to run up front, or at least in the top 3?"

I thought I should make a further comment about your somewhat condescending
reference to my record. First, I have two podium finishes at the Runoffs, HPT and Road America, when there were more than 30 ASedans entered. I have many single digit finishes when there were 40 ASedans. I won the Majors full season National Championship twice, racing all over, against the best. At Indy, I did not buy a test day and destroyed my front hubs on the first Q session, getting only two good laps in during the four days leading up to the race, due to black flags and other issues. At MidO, I was mugged by Tom Sloe on the first lap and drove a car with alignment issues to a decent finish. At Sonoma (a track I was on once in 1978) I had the wrong gears, the wrong rev limiter and hit the wall hard on the third lap. Given all of that, I don't think you can tar me with a "mid-pack" label. Since you haven't posted your name, I would like to see how my record compares to yours at the Runoffs.

smithpr 04-05-2019 12:02 PM

Jim, you are a great asset to the class and one of the reasons I love this class. I think that there is something that needs to be considered in what it takes to run fast times in the class. Let's go back to the 2016 Runoffs. Ed Q'd at 1:32.8 your best was 1:37.0 Race was closer Ed 1:33.4 and you were 1:36.8 Your times were really good all things considered and I am sure that in a perfect world you could have gone faster.

I don't think he was condescending, he was pointing out some results. We all work hard and are proud of what we do and anyone that races is amazing in my book. We still need to be able to have fact-based discussions about results.

Historically I have never been able to run the times of the fast Fords. My podiums have all been a result of me running a decent race in a car that was able to finish. I took last year off to fix some issues with the car and so far I think we are on to something. I am really proud of my TR at Atlanta. Could Andy, Ed, Brian L or a bunch of others beat it may be but that is still a nice time.

I DO NOT think that it cost a ton of money to run up front. I love my engine program and it is not crazy expensive. Not cheap. Do we use the most expensive parts no- but we use what we need to? A new engine would be in the $15,000 range with the vast majority in hard parts. We use some cast-off Cup stuff to keep costs down. I use a dog box because I got tired of shreading the other stuff. Brakes stuff is all old Cup stuff. Come by and look at my car anytime. The most expensive thing about it is the investment of time I have made in making it better.

I think that if you are willing to work hard and make smart decisions you can build a fast car without breaking the bank but don't try in a 3rd Gen Camaro, they are the hardest car to build. There just isn't much produced for road racing for these old beasts.

Can't wait to see everyone at VIR. Some fun will be had.:D

DBailey 04-05-2019 12:07 PM

Jim, He is Dave Mead, currently selling a ltd prep mustang that is listed in the for sale section.
The Car was at Sonoma, Qualified mid pack, finished 4th after Andy and Kevin fell out of the race. Silver Mustang with Pratt Cole driving.

jimwheeler 04-05-2019 02:03 PM

Thanks. As to Philip's comments. At the HPTopeka Runoffs, where I finished 3rd, I had the second fastest lap, behind Heinrocket. He ran a 1:52.788 and I ran a 1:53.335. There were 31 cars, as I recall, and most of them were really fast. When then started moving the Runoffs around, I found that I could no longer brake real late and drive 10/10ths like I did at my home track. Maybe age, not sure, but the car is capable of much more than I am currently getting out of it. Bring the Runoffs back to (now) HMP and I would expect to be at the top of the lap times without doing anything to my car.

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