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-   -   The New 1LE Camaro (http://s91730302.onlinehome.us/forums/showthread.php?t=2922)

Ted Johnson 03-27-2012 02:18 PM

The New 1LE Camaro
 
Hope the rule makers are aware of this coming down the pipe. Seems like a tailored fit for limited prep. But darn it. It has a 6 speed in it and probably needs a dog box for reliability to save us all some money:p.

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/n...ar/0327_camaro




http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z...oductionRS.jpg

DSeefeldt 03-27-2012 10:10 PM

I like it.

Darryl

Danny"TheKid"Richardson 03-28-2012 08:42 AM

That thing is bad ass. Still gonna suffer from the same thing, if it uses the supercharged motor (ie, "Using the technologies from the ZL1), the car is gonna way something like 4100 pounds. Additionally, the rims are going to be 20s because the brakes are 15.6 inches including caliper. with all that horsepower, it should weigh 6000 pounds under the TI weight to hp ratio. We should put a SIR on it that turns the inlet into and bb gun bullet hole. :p

Ted Johnson 03-28-2012 08:51 AM

By my read its a zl1 camaro minus the supercharger. Has all the other zl1 goodies though. It would be nice to know where it comes in on weight. I guess find the zl1 weight and subtract the supercharger and accessories and you'd be close.

For 2013, the 1LE package is offered only on 1SS and 2SS coupe models, featuring a 6.2L LS3 V-8, which is rated at 426 horsepower (318 kW) and 420 lb-ft of torque (569 Nm). In addition, 1LE is only available with a six-speed manual transmission.
While the Camaro SS features a Tremec TR6060-M10 for all-around performance, the Camaro 1LE features an exclusive Tremec TR6060-MM6. Paired with a numerically higher 3.91 final-drive ratio, the close-ratio gearing of the transmission is tuned for road-racing performance. As with the ZL1, the 1LE transmission features a standard air-to-liquid cooling system for track use

jackmartin 03-28-2012 10:45 AM

That is a cool car. Don't forget the quick acting short throw shifter trimmed in sueded microfiber. The 7" color screen radio is just what you need for those long straights at RA.
Sub 3 minute lap time at VIR. What is a good AS lap time at VIR?

Jack

wre46 03-28-2012 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackmartin (Post 28561)
That is a cool car. Don't forget the quick acting short throw shifter trimmed in sueded microfiber. The 7" color screen radio is just what you need for those long straights at RA.
Sub 3 minute lap time at VIR. What is a good AS lap time at VIR?

Jack

2:06 unless you count last years tornado party! :cheers:

Danny"TheKid"Richardson 03-28-2012 11:10 AM

They do their test times with the full course which we don't run

Ted Johnson 03-28-2012 12:10 PM

Theres some banter going on that a mustang laguna seca's best lap is 3:02:??? Supposedly on stickier tires than the camaro comes with. But we know how reliable magazine data can be. What we need is some Tom Wallace data. Where are you Tom? I know your watching.

Ted Johnson 03-28-2012 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny"TheKid"Richardson (Post 28558)
That thing is bad ass. Still gonna suffer from the same thing, if it uses the supercharged motor (ie, "Using the technologies from the ZL1), the car is gonna way something like 4100 pounds. Additionally, the rims are going to be 20s because the brakes are 15.6 inches including caliper. with all that horsepower, it should weigh 6000 pounds under the TI weight to hp ratio. We should put a SIR on it that turns the inlet into and bb gun bullet hole. :p

I can't find any information on the +15 inch rotors. I'm seeing 14.6 and 14.4 but I haven't really dug into it. Hoosier doesn't even make 20 inch d.o.t's for those wheels so we could mandate a smaller wheel for it. If the brakes won't clear the smaller wheels, I might have something to fix that if its an issue. Its rated at 426 hp, the target power we hoped for in the full prep cars. I'm sure a serious diet could get it down to a reasonable weight. For under 40 k and don't forget if you blow the motor, just take it to Kopper and ask for warranty work. :D

Danny"TheKid"Richardson 03-28-2012 01:33 PM

It's 15 something with caliper. Trust me I measured

DSeefeldt 03-28-2012 07:52 PM

Ted:

Is A/C delete an option? It was on the original 1LEs back in the day. I didn't see any mention of that. That's one way of getting rid of some weight.

Darryl

PamRichardson 03-28-2012 09:23 PM

A/c
 
It is highly likely that A/C is NOT included with the car. Don't know if you could order it or not. Our AS Camaro is a 1991 1LE and came WITHOUT A/C.

I'd bet your local Chevy dealer could answer the question.

Pam Richardson

abaileyracing 03-28-2012 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny"TheKid"Richardson (Post 28567)
It's 15 something with caliper. Trust me I measured

With Caliper I can believe that. There are similar brakes on the cars I work on, and the actual rotor diameter itself is 14 and 14.4 diameter on the SS and 14.6 on the ZL1. You can't get too much bigger and still fit in a 20" wheel!

Danny"TheKid"Richardson 03-29-2012 08:23 AM

i have found that 18s are the smallest im willing to go with those brakes. They are saying that some custom 17s will fit... im guessing that is a $3-4,000 custom rim job from boggart.

jkopp 03-29-2012 09:14 AM

Word we're getting is that AC delete is NOT an option. The 3rd Gen 1LE's had a brake upgrade too. Would've been cool to see some killer brakes on the Gen 5 too. :(

DSeefeldt 03-29-2012 09:50 AM

Jeff:

Any word on the actual MSRP for a 1SS? Too bad about the A/C delete not being an option.

Thanks,

Darryl

CobraR05 03-29-2012 10:12 AM

sub 3 minutes is the Grand Course, which is full course plus the infield.

this car is to compete with the boss mustangs. since 5L FR500C and Boss 302 Mustangs are not AS legal, it would take a fundamental change to create an opening to run the Camaro in AS.

Danny"TheKid"Richardson 03-29-2012 10:15 AM

We need a t1 limited prep for these beasts

jimwheeler 03-29-2012 10:15 AM

What fundamental change would have to be made to run the Camaro?

Danny"TheKid"Richardson 03-29-2012 10:17 AM

Fund a track that will let me run my streetcar at full tilt against an as car and we can start from there

DSeefeldt 03-29-2012 10:22 AM

Jeff:

Correction! Any word on the MSRP for a 1SS w/1LE Option and no other options?

Thanks,

Darryl

jimwheeler 03-29-2012 10:34 AM

HPT on May 6th. Double Rational/PDX/Vintage/D.S.

Danny"TheKid"Richardson 03-29-2012 10:50 AM

Summit point national weekend and friends wedding

jkopp 03-29-2012 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSeefeldt (Post 28580)
Correction! Any word on the MSRP for a 1SS w/1LE Option and no other options?

We have very little info on it right now and no pricing. Typical.

Ted Johnson 03-29-2012 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkopp (Post 28574)
Word we're getting is that AC delete is NOT an option. The 3rd Gen 1LE's had a brake upgrade too. Would've been cool to see some killer brakes on the Gen 5 too. :(

Its ok Jeff. We have the 5th gens covered with a package that consists of the 6 piston version of Mikes calipers on front, 14.25 discs front and rear. A little less rotating mass compared to the 1LE brakes with 14.6 and 14.4 And a killer caliper to boot.

Note to the rulemakers if 5th gen cars are being considered in A/S allowing aftermarket brakes, that the current Wilwood available offering is a 6 piston front caliper with the above disc sizes. A 4 piston offering is available but if the rule is written please be aware of the disc sizes above. Just fyi.

Ted Johnson 03-29-2012 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny"TheKid"Richardson (Post 28579)
Fund a track that will let me run my streetcar at full tilt against an as car and we can start from there

You and Wheel show up to MAM on a fast friday, with your pretty 5th gen with Wheel ready to put door swirls on it and I'll get you paying spectatators. :thumbsup:

We could even put it up against an iron head car. I can think of an orange mustang that would like the opportunity to go full tilt with you on track.

Ted Johnson 03-29-2012 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimwheeler (Post 28578)
What fundamental change would have to be made to run the Camaro?

The first would be to have the 5th gen camaro on a spec line in A/S As well as the mustangs that Rob lists. We opened up the class for weight adjustments, so let them in. Put a dog box in a mustang 302 S and add a 125 pounds. It won't be a performance advantage at all.

Danny"TheKid"Richardson 03-29-2012 03:22 PM

Im So Down Ted! But heres the deal: Any blue paint missing from my street car will be replaced by the nose of my saturn in return :thumbsup:

Ted Johnson 03-29-2012 03:46 PM

Sweet. After that day of carnage is done, sell me your car for $500 and we can go limited prep lemons racing. :cheers:

CobraR05 03-29-2012 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimwheeler (Post 28578)
What fundamental change would have to be made to run the Camaro?

i asked to run my fr500c in AS. 380 whp at 3400lbs with driver. they said no. run sto!(sto??? laughing).

the 1LE is supposed to run Boss 302 lap times. Boss 302 is more car than an FR500C. so, the camaro can run AS but I cant?

PamRichardson 03-29-2012 10:10 PM

Fr500c
 
Words from Ford were that the C car was not aligned with AS. Biggest issue with the C car was the seam welding, which is not allowed in AS.

Pam Richardson

CobraR05 03-29-2012 10:12 PM

well pam. there's always something. right?
my view is there should be MORE effort to attract and invite
participation and finding ways to make it work. instead it always
seems like there is a good reason to say no.

PamRichardson 03-30-2012 08:44 AM

ASAC efforts
 
Rob --

The ASAC is working on 3 things (this is not in priority order as all items are priority).

One is a stand alone set of Limited Prep rules (this is something that has been mentioned here). This so LP cars don't have to be tied to Touring, which is also changing GREATLY for 2013.

Another is bringing more cars into the class (this weekend should give the ASAC data on the FR500S). And this is not the only car the ASAC is considering and researching.

The third thing, and this is VERY important, is keeping all cars as equally competitive as possible. The goal is not to obsolete ANY current car or create a class killer out of ANY car. Also, to keep the rules as stable as possible in this environment. (Ever hear of an overly constrained boundary value problem?)

The ASAC is consulting with current drivers and reviewing performance analysis processes to determine if we can use them to classify new cars. Imagine if we didn't do our homework and brought in a class killer. That wouldn't sit well at all, would it?

It is a tough job and it is underway. The ASAC does recognize that the future of the class is new cars. The goal of fair (and as equal as possible) competition will continue to be up front as the class moves forward.

I hope this helps bring some understanding. Pam

CobraR05 03-30-2012 09:33 AM

the fr500s? that car in factory engine configuration makes barely 300whp. its not competive to AS cars. if the car has the wc gts engine upgrade, its making the same hp as the fr500c.

the class killer always seems to be the fear. instead new cars dont come in or cant compete when they do class them and they dont show up. if a car were classed and showed an immediate advantage, they could be slowed down right away with restrictors or weight.

i mean, doesnt AS have a class killer now? Andy?

i have had an SCCA national license for 3 years. I run the ARRC because its fun and then enough enduros or sarrcs to get my 4 races. I have never used the national license.

there are three nasa classes where i can competitively race my car with enough car count to qualify for the ford racing program. in scca ive got bupkus.

ive been asking for years now and the answer is no. ok....i could have raced the cobra r at 3800lbs on two piston front brakes....

i may run one of the scca national races at vir in april in sto to get a few laps at my closest track and to use my national license before i choose not to renew it in october. i am running 16 nasa races this year with many fr500c/s cars and boss 302r/s cars.

i'll be honest. given the price of diesel i'd prefer to run scca nationals next season and try to qualify for the runoffs. thats crazy in sto. if as is not an option, i am going to finally have to give up waiting and stop wasting my membership and licensing money with the scca. between the membership/licensing fees and the cost of getting my four races i throw away a couple to three thousand dollars each year hoping. its gotten too expensive.

i'll carry 50lbs extra to cover the seam welding.

listen to tim gunn. make it work.

edit: i dont mean to be disrespectful in anyway. i know some here think i just like yanking y'all's chain around here. ive been trying to race AS since 2007. the car i started with might have been raceable maybe, this year. ive moved to the next ford program. its a good reliable car and i enjoy driving it. i want to race AS and i just dont understand why it can't happen. that and my time is running out. i am 52 this year and my wife tells me that i am retiring from racing at 55. i dont have 5 more years to wait.

PamRichardson 03-30-2012 10:19 AM

Vir
 
Rob --

Hope to see you there. Perhaps we can chat.

Pam

koscieldrk 03-30-2012 04:30 PM

[quote=CobraR05;28597]
i'll carry 50lbs extra to cover the seam welding.

Rob, were in the same boat. We have a SN95 that was seam welded (Stitch Welded) and run in ITE. We would love to convert this car over to AS and run it. But Seam Welds (Stitch Welds prevent us from possibly campaigning another car. Add the weight and allow Seam Welds.

thomas toth 03-30-2012 06:11 PM

Does anyone really cars about seam welding anymore? You can have subframe connectors and weld the cage to the firewall, "A" pillars, "B" pillars and even the glass if you could find a way to make it stick....mounting points are unlimited, so how much does seam welding add????

Tom

jkopp 03-30-2012 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas toth (Post 28604)
Does anyone really cars about seam welding anymore? You can have subframe connectors and weld the cage to the firewall, "A" pillars, "B" pillars and even the glass if you could find a way to make it stick....mounting points are unlimited, so how much does seam welding add????

Exactly what I was just wondering.

jimwheeler 03-30-2012 06:17 PM

I have hated that rule for decades. My first car had spot welds pop all through the car. When Ted was running it on the banked oval at St. Louis, the entire rear tower (the part that holds the pan hard bar and brace to the chassis) broke free of the car. The only thing holding the rear under the car was the tires rubbing on the inside of the fenders.

DSeefeldt 03-30-2012 08:56 PM

I agree with Tom and Jeff. I think we're a long ways past seam welding with our current rule set.

Darryl


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